aaaaaa this page was a pain to finish, not sure why, turned out more confusing than I meant it to be but OH well
the next few pages I'm cool with so it's ok
Personally I really like the composition with the single color silhouettes. It's a really cool way to show both what actually happened and what Jerry assumed happened, and how they arguably line up.
As for the comic's dialog, Jerry's right, but more by dumb luck and coincidence. Arguably he's dead cold.
If he's still assuming it's Rob, Rob started the night at the same location as Jerry—Beth's party. If he knew where to ambush him, he would've used the same weak wall to enter the forest. He wouldn't have needed a key.
That said, I don't know how the key would help Vic. I mean, Jerry's copy is in police custody, and Dylan's unlikely to volunteer that he swiped Jerry's spare set.
Dylan had the only set of keys :} Jerry forgot to bring them with him. He's saying, 'hey tell the police I was trying to take the shortcut, you can show them the gate key as proof'
It's a situation where you don't need the key to get through the first part of the shortcut, but you need the key to get out at the other end. This page should've explained it but I loused up
Nah, you did a good job explaining that you needed a set of keys to get out the only other exit, but it wasn't really clear that Rob would need to take that route in the first place.
I mean, even if he had escaped through the forest, he could've just as easily come across the gate, discovered it was locked, turned around and left through the break in the wall. I think we'd need to establish that there was a witness to Jerry's body shortly after the murder to justify why the killer could only escape through the gate.
Yeah Rob wouldn't need to escape that way, Jerry just mentions the keys as some kind of proof that he was intending to take the shortcut, hence why he was facing the wall.
The illustration is Jerry's take on the incident coupled with how Dylan sees it but... Do you think Rob or anyone else could have been there as well at the same time? Two people decided to kill Jerry and waited on the same spot. One actually killed him (Rob from behind) and the other thought it was his attack that killed Jerry while the actual killer escaped and left it at that.
Eeeh... Dunno. Thinking aloud.
I just think that Jerry did not see the killer, yeah, but he would probably notice someone standing there by his side unless it was really that dark and he was not paying attention (drunk, absentminded).
Hmm… I don't think anyone from the party could be hiding within the fenced in area if they entered through the wall. Dylan arrived at the wall fairly early and camped as he waited for Jerry. For anyone else to get inside, they would've had to have gotten in and hidden before Dylan arrived, least they be noticed by him and sabotage the murder before it began.
I think it's more likely that if anyone else were in there with Dylan, they would've had to have also entered through the gate. Dylan's focus would be on the wall so he could easily miss any activity going on on the other end of the property. Though, it was dark enough to use a flashlight, it's unlikely if a third party was present that they could get close enough without being detected to witness anything of value.
Maybe I'm just not imaginative enough, but I can't see anyone other than Dylan being present in that area that night.
Yes. Then one option would be for someone to arrive there AFTER the murder.
The other option would be sn observer who might have partially seen the murder. And that someone decided it is better to string Dylan along instead of reporting it but yes, who?
I was thinking about stories where one person kills another and then later it is revealed who else wanted to kill the same person and was there on the same day at the same time and killed the killer or any other messy scenario but, hm, I cannot implement that here.
Yup but I think he threw them away on the spur of the moment. Quickly get rid of anything people might find and then link it to the murder. Even if he acted calm and believed everything went smoothly.
I do not expect the police to search the lake/river but it is a possibility once the case gets complicated and they might find the keys (provided something did not carry them elsewhere).
Holding to a piece of evidence is bad, yes, but something small as keys I would say he had plenty of other ways to keep them while hiding them safely as well. Hm.
I might be disregarding something important though. Sure :D
Huh, Wooster's link back to the start had me curious, so I hopped forward a couple of pages and found something interesting on page 9-10. The page strongly implies that Dylan hit Jerry with the cinder block, but it doesn't actually show it, so what Jerry's saying could actually be true and Dylan didn't kill him. If, by some dumb luck for Dylan, that is actually what happened, then who *did* kill Jerry? If it was Rob, did someone kill him for revenge, or did the same person who killed Jerry also kill Rob? Or is there more than one murderer?
Though I doubt Jerry is right, I would be very intrigued if it turned out that Dylan did not kill his brother, and that his murderer is still at large. I think it might actually make the plot even twistier than it already is, especially since perception of reality is the name of the game, and we only have Dylan's point of view outside of dialogue.
What if Corey didn't kill anyone, but suspects who did?
What if Rob didn't actually hate Jerry, but everyone just assumed it because they didn't get along, and the reason Jerry was so late was because he murdered Rob? (Seems very unlikely at this point.)
Moth, you are a very clever storyteller and shrewd in revealing the details of the mystery. Thanks for sharing it with us! :)
Assuming you're right about Dylan being loosely innocent.
I think that would mean that Dylan would need to have a blackout between the swing and the aftermath of the murder. Right now it looks like Dapper Jerry has some manner of influence on the blackouts. That would then suggest that Dapper Jerry either prevented Dylan from murdering Jerry—only for Robin to do it himself—or Dapper Jerry took over and murdered Jerry anyway.
Ignoring for a fact that Dapper Jerry didn't seem to enter the scene until the funeral, I don't think Dapper Jerry would prevent Jerry's murder. Granted, Dylan hasn't given him much reason to act otherwise, but Dapper Jerry seems too callous to preform an act of charity.
The alternative, that Dapper Jerry took control for the final act, has some fun implications. If Dylan was going to murder Jerry anyway, there's no reason to interrupt the act. But if Dylan hesitated, that would be another story. I'm reminded of a bit of trivia about hypnotism: you can't get a person who's hypnotized to do something against their will. If Dylan was being influenced to murder Jerry, but couldn't preform the final act, that might open another dimension to this case.
As for Jerry/Rob murdering each other…
I don't think Rob's final words to Beth left much up for misinterpretation.
But, assuming Jerry murdered Rob… even given the wait, I don't think Jerry would've taken Rob's body all the way to a seedy part of town. He wouldn't have had time and would've likely been spotted on the way. Actually, on that note, I don't think Dylan would've done that either. It begs the question of where Rob actually died and how he got into the drain.
Thanks for the links and the great analysis! It leads me to wonder, what if Rob *did* kill Jerry, but accidentally got in the way of Dylan's hesitated swing and took a glancing blow? Maybe it was enough to stagger him and make him flee, but not enough to knock him out. He wandered to the seedy part of town by himself somehow and then fell victim to either passing out in the drain and drowning or the killer-at-large (KAT for short?) finished him off. It's a theory with a lot of wobble to it, but it would explain why Dylan believes he killed Jerry and how Rob might have died.
Well, with the first scenario—where Robin took a glancing blow and died later in the sewers—that would still count as being murdered by Dylan. And, even if Dylan did get a glancing blow, I'm pretty sure that he would notice Rob screaming in pain. And, considering Jerry and Corey's take on Rob's character, I think it's more likely Rob would try to finish off Dylan then go for a walk away from the crime scene.
With the KAT scenario, Rob wouldn't even need to get involved with Jerry to get that final outcome. He could've left the party and went straight to the sewers and had a lethal meeting with KAT.
Maybe we're overlooking something obvious… like why does Dapper Jerry look like Jerry?
It is possible Suit Jerry possessed Dylan at the right moment and that is why Dylan does not remember killing Rob or how it played out. Assuming Dylan killed Rob under Suit Jerry's influence, let's say Suit Jerry might have hypnotized him long enough to drag Rob's body and dump it down the sewers. However, Dylan fled the place (from what he recalls anyway) so any body dragging adventures across half the town seem... highly unlikable, yup.
This would also suggest Suit Jerry definitely existed before the murder and not only after the funeral. Again, we are back to the hospital where he was shown first and again during Rob's flashback so he could have been there before the murder waiting. But it does not explain how Rob ended up in the drain.
Was it confirmed he had no injuries and just drowned or only according to Jerry? I find it weird nobody else found his body yet but it is possible. Sure, someone might have pushed him or he fought with someone but, once again, with whom?
Yeah, I think unless we have more evidence on who the hell Suit Jerry is, everything is open. I think he was there from the start after some past murder (as Rob mentioned these things apparently happen) and can influence people a great deal. Perhaps Suit Jerry is another entity altogether which can take a form of whoever suits him at the moment or after a murder. For Dylan it is Jerry obviously.
Author Note
Moth
aaaaaa this page was a pain to finish, not sure why, turned out more confusing than I meant it to be but OH well
the next few pages I'm cool with so it's ok
Comments
Wooster
Personally I really like the composition with the single color silhouettes. It's a really cool way to show both what actually happened and what Jerry assumed happened, and how they arguably line up.
As for the comic's dialog, Jerry's right, but more by dumb luck and coincidence. Arguably he's dead cold.
If he's still assuming it's Rob, Rob started the night at the same location as Jerry—Beth's party. If he knew where to ambush him, he would've used the same weak wall to enter the forest. He wouldn't have needed a key.
That said, I don't know how the key would help Vic. I mean, Jerry's copy is in police custody, and Dylan's unlikely to volunteer that he swiped Jerry's spare set.
Moth
Dylan had the only set of keys :} Jerry forgot to bring them with him. He's saying, 'hey tell the police I was trying to take the shortcut, you can show them the gate key as proof'
It's a situation where you don't need the key to get through the first part of the shortcut, but you need the key to get out at the other end. This page should've explained it but I loused up
Wooster
Nah, you did a good job explaining that you needed a set of keys to get out the only other exit, but it wasn't really clear that Rob would need to take that route in the first place.
I mean, even if he had escaped through the forest, he could've just as easily come across the gate, discovered it was locked, turned around and left through the break in the wall. I think we'd need to establish that there was a witness to Jerry's body shortly after the murder to justify why the killer could only escape through the gate.
Moth
Yeah Rob wouldn't need to escape that way, Jerry just mentions the keys as some kind of proof that he was intending to take the shortcut, hence why he was facing the wall.
See why I'm not too happy with this page? haha
MadJak91
The illustration is Jerry's take on the incident coupled with how Dylan sees it but... Do you think Rob or anyone else could have been there as well at the same time? Two people decided to kill Jerry and waited on the same spot. One actually killed him (Rob from behind) and the other thought it was his attack that killed Jerry while the actual killer escaped and left it at that.
Eeeh... Dunno. Thinking aloud.
I just think that Jerry did not see the killer, yeah, but he would probably notice someone standing there by his side unless it was really that dark and he was not paying attention (drunk, absentminded).
Wooster
Could anyone else have been there?
Hmm… I don't think anyone from the party could be hiding within the fenced in area if they entered through the wall. Dylan arrived at the wall fairly early and camped as he waited for Jerry. For anyone else to get inside, they would've had to have gotten in and hidden before Dylan arrived, least they be noticed by him and sabotage the murder before it began.
I think it's more likely that if anyone else were in there with Dylan, they would've had to have also entered through the gate. Dylan's focus would be on the wall so he could easily miss any activity going on on the other end of the property. Though, it was dark enough to use a flashlight, it's unlikely if a third party was present that they could get close enough without being detected to witness anything of value.
Maybe I'm just not imaginative enough, but I can't see anyone other than Dylan being present in that area that night.
MadJak91
Yes. Then one option would be for someone to arrive there AFTER the murder.
The other option would be sn observer who might have partially seen the murder. And that someone decided it is better to string Dylan along instead of reporting it but yes, who?
I was thinking about stories where one person kills another and then later it is revealed who else wanted to kill the same person and was there on the same day at the same time and killed the killer or any other messy scenario but, hm, I cannot implement that here.
Omar
Oh boy, I wonder how Dylan's gonna explain to Jerry that he doesn't have those keys anymore...
Moth
'oh Jerry you hapless man you must have lost them' >_>
Mel Cormac
In Dylan's defence, I'm not sure there's a reasonable way he could have expected he would need to hang on to those keys...
I can feel Dylan's facial expression at the bottom of this page. That feeling when the bottom drops out of your stomach and you go cold for a second.
MadJak91
Yup but I think he threw them away on the spur of the moment. Quickly get rid of anything people might find and then link it to the murder. Even if he acted calm and believed everything went smoothly.
I do not expect the police to search the lake/river but it is a possibility once the case gets complicated and they might find the keys (provided something did not carry them elsewhere).
Holding to a piece of evidence is bad, yes, but something small as keys I would say he had plenty of other ways to keep them while hiding them safely as well. Hm.
I might be disregarding something important though. Sure :D
Aluers
Getting rid of the keys is still a good thing. Knowing the route he would take would make him seem all the more the one that did it
Thracecius
Huh, Wooster's link back to the start had me curious, so I hopped forward a couple of pages and found something interesting on page 9-10. The page strongly implies that Dylan hit Jerry with the cinder block, but it doesn't actually show it, so what Jerry's saying could actually be true and Dylan didn't kill him. If, by some dumb luck for Dylan, that is actually what happened, then who *did* kill Jerry? If it was Rob, did someone kill him for revenge, or did the same person who killed Jerry also kill Rob? Or is there more than one murderer?
Though I doubt Jerry is right, I would be very intrigued if it turned out that Dylan did not kill his brother, and that his murderer is still at large. I think it might actually make the plot even twistier than it already is, especially since perception of reality is the name of the game, and we only have Dylan's point of view outside of dialogue.
What if Corey didn't kill anyone, but suspects who did?
What if Rob didn't actually hate Jerry, but everyone just assumed it because they didn't get along, and the reason Jerry was so late was because he murdered Rob? (Seems very unlikely at this point.)
Moth, you are a very clever storyteller and shrewd in revealing the details of the mystery. Thanks for sharing it with us! :)
Wooster
Assuming you're right about Dylan being loosely innocent.
I think that would mean that Dylan would need to have a blackout between the swing and the aftermath of the murder. Right now it looks like Dapper Jerry has some manner of influence on the blackouts. That would then suggest that Dapper Jerry either prevented Dylan from murdering Jerry—only for Robin to do it himself—or Dapper Jerry took over and murdered Jerry anyway.
Ignoring for a fact that Dapper Jerry didn't seem to enter the scene until the funeral, I don't think Dapper Jerry would prevent Jerry's murder. Granted, Dylan hasn't given him much reason to act otherwise, but Dapper Jerry seems too callous to preform an act of charity.
The alternative, that Dapper Jerry took control for the final act, has some fun implications. If Dylan was going to murder Jerry anyway, there's no reason to interrupt the act. But if Dylan hesitated, that would be another story. I'm reminded of a bit of trivia about hypnotism: you can't get a person who's hypnotized to do something against their will. If Dylan was being influenced to murder Jerry, but couldn't preform the final act, that might open another dimension to this case.
As for Jerry/Rob murdering each other…
I don't think Rob's final words to Beth left much up for misinterpretation.
But, assuming Jerry murdered Rob… even given the wait, I don't think Jerry would've taken Rob's body all the way to a seedy part of town. He wouldn't have had time and would've likely been spotted on the way. Actually, on that note, I don't think Dylan would've done that either. It begs the question of where Rob actually died and how he got into the drain.
Thracecius
Thanks for the links and the great analysis! It leads me to wonder, what if Rob *did* kill Jerry, but accidentally got in the way of Dylan's hesitated swing and took a glancing blow? Maybe it was enough to stagger him and make him flee, but not enough to knock him out. He wandered to the seedy part of town by himself somehow and then fell victim to either passing out in the drain and drowning or the killer-at-large (KAT for short?) finished him off. It's a theory with a lot of wobble to it, but it would explain why Dylan believes he killed Jerry and how Rob might have died.
Wooster
Well, with the first scenario—where Robin took a glancing blow and died later in the sewers—that would still count as being murdered by Dylan. And, even if Dylan did get a glancing blow, I'm pretty sure that he would notice Rob screaming in pain. And, considering Jerry and Corey's take on Rob's character, I think it's more likely Rob would try to finish off Dylan then go for a walk away from the crime scene.
With the KAT scenario, Rob wouldn't even need to get involved with Jerry to get that final outcome. He could've left the party and went straight to the sewers and had a lethal meeting with KAT.
Maybe we're overlooking something obvious… like why does Dapper Jerry look like Jerry?
MadJak91
It is possible Suit Jerry possessed Dylan at the right moment and that is why Dylan does not remember killing Rob or how it played out. Assuming Dylan killed Rob under Suit Jerry's influence, let's say Suit Jerry might have hypnotized him long enough to drag Rob's body and dump it down the sewers. However, Dylan fled the place (from what he recalls anyway) so any body dragging adventures across half the town seem... highly unlikable, yup.
This would also suggest Suit Jerry definitely existed before the murder and not only after the funeral. Again, we are back to the hospital where he was shown first and again during Rob's flashback so he could have been there before the murder waiting. But it does not explain how Rob ended up in the drain.
Was it confirmed he had no injuries and just drowned or only according to Jerry? I find it weird nobody else found his body yet but it is possible. Sure, someone might have pushed him or he fought with someone but, once again, with whom?
Yeah, I think unless we have more evidence on who the hell Suit Jerry is, everything is open. I think he was there from the start after some past murder (as Rob mentioned these things apparently happen) and can influence people a great deal. Perhaps Suit Jerry is another entity altogether which can take a form of whoever suits him at the moment or after a murder. For Dylan it is Jerry obviously.
Jackarais
Moth
MAKIN ME WISH I'D DONE THAT DRAMATIC LIGHTING
Jackarais
I actually really like how subtle it is in your version, the amount of internal screaming there must be ...considerable